Last night, I went to a dear family friend's house for dinner and got a chance to talk with their 18yo son who, as a child, loved God whole-heartedly, but upon entrance into a public high school and their indoctrination, began to doubt the existence of God. We "discussed" his various questions for almost 3 hours and stopped with 2 questions:
What is absolute right and wrong and why do I need to know this (how is it relevant to me)?
I doubt I'll be in contact with him again soon, but I could barely sleep last night because it was bothering me so badly and I didn't want to forget what I had thought up of on the way home, so I wrote this 0530 today, in the form of a letter to address his points and potentially what he might ask.
What is absolute right and wrong?
(Definitions from Dictionary.com)
Right
(1): proper and just.
As created beings, we do not define the moral aspects right-ness because these "inclinations" and knowledge are pre-defined and given to us at birth. This is another discussion.
(2): in conformity with fact, reason, truth, or some standard; CORRECT
Facts - these will have to be based on our perceptions. You have to base your beliefs (initially at least) on what you see and perceive, because you have no other facilities by which to judge.
Reason - or logic. Logically, there are "things" in life (including your religion and beliefs) that demand or require exclusivity. Thus, there can be no more than one right, though there could be less.
Truth - we won't use this word in this argument, since we put this aside for "spiritual" purposes.
Standard - like you said, we as humans will each have our own standards, based on our perceptions, but if there are higher beings, they will have standards for us. In addition, there is also a standard by which all beings are conscious of the fact or reality of right and wrong.
Correct - right is correct. There is no way around it. Your perceptions and therefore judgments of reality and it's may be twisted, but that doesn't invalidate the rightness or wrongness of reality or whatever standard discussed.
I'll stop with those 2 definitions, since the rest seemed superfluous, but I'm willing to talk about each. And wrong is the opposite of right.
As I stated last night, right and wrong are not just standards for our morality and ethics. Right and wrong is a standard by which all things may and can be judged. All discussion hereafter of right and wrong will encompass all these components?
[The following section is to be edited after I go back and study logic.]
I know we tried to differentiate true & false from right & wrong last night, but in reality, the same logic follows.
If X, then Y.
If you say, "there is no absolute right.", you have just stated an 'absolutely right' statement, just like an absolutely true statement. Difference being, right also entails moral and ethical meaning now.
Therefore, you have negated your first premise.
The negative of there being no absolute right... Is there being absolute right.
If there is absolute right, then conversely, there is absolute wrong.
So why do you or I need to know what is absolute right and wrong?
Because if there is absolute right or wrong, then you either believe in the right or in the wrong. You can't be both.
I am either right or wrong about believing you are in college. You are either right or wrong in believing I'm not a teenager. I am either right or wrong about Buddhism. You are either right or wrong about the existence of my God.
There is no middle ground of whether God loves or not. There is no middle ground of whether Islam is right or not. There is no middle ground of whether you have a younger sister named Anita or not.
Sure, you and I may perceive the "Christian God" differently, but if we both believe He exists, we are either right or wrong about it. There is no in-between of, "Oh, Rhoden is righter than Vivian, because his God is more accurately perceived and interpreted from the original Greek New Testament." It just doesn't work.
Thus, you are either right or wrong about Christianity being the right and the one true way to God.
If you are wrong, then you're going to hell.
If you're right, then you still haven't determined which of the plethora of religions out there is the right one (I say one, because we know all religions are exclusive). Only one is right, and they all have consequences for whether you believe and act according to them or not. Not only does your after life depends on this one belief, but your life on earth as well, even if you decide to believe in atheism (the supposed religion cop-out today). You act according to what you believe.
I'm anticipating your next question will be how you know right or wrong, and because you are you and have stated you will believe something based on your perceptions, tainted and imperfect though they may be, I exhort you to define what evidence you need in order to believe something is right.
Personally, I seek consistency and integrity. I admit to not having studied nearly enough of other religions to compare sufficiently with Christianity on the basis of consistency, since I grew up in the church. Yes, I look at people's experiences with God as evidence for Christianity's, but just as the Chopin Ballade No. 1 will always been Chopin Ballade No. 1, no matter how badly I may play or interpret it, God will always be God if He is God no matter how messed up fallible and imperfect the humans who believe and love Him may be.
Do not doubt the infallibility, omniscience, omnipresence, or omnipotence of God and His Word because people around you have misunderstandings, misperceptions, or misinterpretations. If there is one perfect-cut ruby before 100 people, each person has varying degrees of imperfect eyesight, because of astigmatism, near-sighted-ness, far-sighted-ness, color blindness, blindness, whatever! They have have something wrong with their perception or understanding of what a perfect ruby should be. BUT THE RUBY IS PERFECT WHETHER YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IT OR NOT.
In the end, if don’t have this standard of right or wrong for anything in your life, you live a life based not even on randomness, but on chaos. Nothing will ever work, because it doesn’t have to work. There is too much in this universe indicating order, standards, right and wrong for you to come to the conclusion that there are no such things.
What is absolute right and wrong and why do I need to know this (how is it relevant to me)?
I doubt I'll be in contact with him again soon, but I could barely sleep last night because it was bothering me so badly and I didn't want to forget what I had thought up of on the way home, so I wrote this 0530 today, in the form of a letter to address his points and potentially what he might ask.
What is absolute right and wrong?
(Definitions from Dictionary.com)
Right
(1): proper and just.
As created beings, we do not define the moral aspects right-ness because these "inclinations" and knowledge are pre-defined and given to us at birth. This is another discussion.
(2): in conformity with fact, reason, truth, or some standard; CORRECT
Facts - these will have to be based on our perceptions. You have to base your beliefs (initially at least) on what you see and perceive, because you have no other facilities by which to judge.
Reason - or logic. Logically, there are "things" in life (including your religion and beliefs) that demand or require exclusivity. Thus, there can be no more than one right, though there could be less.
Truth - we won't use this word in this argument, since we put this aside for "spiritual" purposes.
Standard - like you said, we as humans will each have our own standards, based on our perceptions, but if there are higher beings, they will have standards for us. In addition, there is also a standard by which all beings are conscious of the fact or reality of right and wrong.
Correct - right is correct. There is no way around it. Your perceptions and therefore judgments of reality and it's may be twisted, but that doesn't invalidate the rightness or wrongness of reality or whatever standard discussed.
I'll stop with those 2 definitions, since the rest seemed superfluous, but I'm willing to talk about each. And wrong is the opposite of right.
As I stated last night, right and wrong are not just standards for our morality and ethics. Right and wrong is a standard by which all things may and can be judged. All discussion hereafter of right and wrong will encompass all these components?
[The following section is to be edited after I go back and study logic.]
I know we tried to differentiate true & false from right & wrong last night, but in reality, the same logic follows.
If X, then Y.
If you say, "there is no absolute right.", you have just stated an 'absolutely right' statement, just like an absolutely true statement. Difference being, right also entails moral and ethical meaning now.
Therefore, you have negated your first premise.
The negative of there being no absolute right... Is there being absolute right.
If there is absolute right, then conversely, there is absolute wrong.
So why do you or I need to know what is absolute right and wrong?
Because if there is absolute right or wrong, then you either believe in the right or in the wrong. You can't be both.
I am either right or wrong about believing you are in college. You are either right or wrong in believing I'm not a teenager. I am either right or wrong about Buddhism. You are either right or wrong about the existence of my God.
There is no middle ground of whether God loves or not. There is no middle ground of whether Islam is right or not. There is no middle ground of whether you have a younger sister named Anita or not.
Sure, you and I may perceive the "Christian God" differently, but if we both believe He exists, we are either right or wrong about it. There is no in-between of, "Oh, Rhoden is righter than Vivian, because his God is more accurately perceived and interpreted from the original Greek New Testament." It just doesn't work.
Thus, you are either right or wrong about Christianity being the right and the one true way to God.
If you are wrong, then you're going to hell.
If you're right, then you still haven't determined which of the plethora of religions out there is the right one (I say one, because we know all religions are exclusive). Only one is right, and they all have consequences for whether you believe and act according to them or not. Not only does your after life depends on this one belief, but your life on earth as well, even if you decide to believe in atheism (the supposed religion cop-out today). You act according to what you believe.
I'm anticipating your next question will be how you know right or wrong, and because you are you and have stated you will believe something based on your perceptions, tainted and imperfect though they may be, I exhort you to define what evidence you need in order to believe something is right.
Personally, I seek consistency and integrity. I admit to not having studied nearly enough of other religions to compare sufficiently with Christianity on the basis of consistency, since I grew up in the church. Yes, I look at people's experiences with God as evidence for Christianity's, but just as the Chopin Ballade No. 1 will always been Chopin Ballade No. 1, no matter how badly I may play or interpret it, God will always be God if He is God no matter how messed up fallible and imperfect the humans who believe and love Him may be.
Do not doubt the infallibility, omniscience, omnipresence, or omnipotence of God and His Word because people around you have misunderstandings, misperceptions, or misinterpretations. If there is one perfect-cut ruby before 100 people, each person has varying degrees of imperfect eyesight, because of astigmatism, near-sighted-ness, far-sighted-ness, color blindness, blindness, whatever! They have have something wrong with their perception or understanding of what a perfect ruby should be. BUT THE RUBY IS PERFECT WHETHER YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IT OR NOT.
In the end, if don’t have this standard of right or wrong for anything in your life, you live a life based not even on randomness, but on chaos. Nothing will ever work, because it doesn’t have to work. There is too much in this universe indicating order, standards, right and wrong for you to come to the conclusion that there are no such things.
~CJ
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